Thanks for your translation, the general meaning is correct, but some details may still need to be embellished for the sake of rigor.
Yes, the classification is based on functionality, not on the nature of things. Because the latter requires a large number of objective experiments to give more scientific results, which we can not do at present. So I think this is the first stage of classification, it's for the future.
It is more for the future contact with this kind of culture novice, as well as the public do not understand this kind of culture.
Currently this definition is fairly broad, such as IF can also be incorporated into this classification. The aim is not to narrow the definition so that members of the previous community feel excluded. Second, it actually protects the original concept of tulpa, so that we can explore and study the essence of tulpa without interference from similar concepts.
In short, the new taxonomy is only used by current community members to correct some of the less rigorous data. I'm sure you've seen the controversy over the old classification system.
So the new taxonomy may not make much sense to most members. Because it's more for beginners and the future.
Eternal Beauty is a new concept to me. I've never heard of it. I need to look it up.
The above classification may still be not rigorous or even omissions, please be sure to put forward their own valuable Suggestions. If you have better ideas, list them separately. Had better control is less than 5, such convenient novice memory, also convenient people is daily use.
Below I will give a relatively rigorous classification based on the information collected in the past six months and my personal experience as a Chinese community administrator for 2 years. I will not give nouns directly, just replace them with numbers:
Category 1. After understanding the relevant tulpa literature, the practice of content, they created the final product. The tulpa literature here mainly refers to the original guide to the tulpa community. For example, the English community, the Russian community, and the guides displayed on the main websites of the Japanese community.
Category 2. They don't know the information of the tulpa community, but they created a similar existence. The main difference between category 2 and category 1 is that they don't know the tulpa culture, they may only have similar information, in extreme cases they don't know anything, but take the approach that the tulpa community does.
Category 3. After they contacted the relevant materials, they did not try or interrupted the attempt, but still produced results. The difference from categorization 1 is that, on the autonomy of the parties, the interval between the termination of creation and the generation of such "existence" must be at least three days. This situation can be considered as the party has no intention to complete in the heart.
Category 4. They do not know the tulpa literature or relevant information, nor take the initiative to try similar practices, but still produce the "existence". Can be considered the "opposite" of category 2.It should be noted that category 3 and category 4 contain DID and other special cases. For example, the person may have different degrees of psychological trauma, or depression, etc. Since only the individual knows his/her own situation best, if his/her own situation conforms to classification 3 and 4, the party concerned needs to think more about his/her own health, and should not blindly consider himself/herself as one of these two categories.
The following is a summary of the advantages and disadvantages of the old taxonomy:
Note, for the convenience of writing, I use encounter type as an 邂逅型 instead. This may not be a rigorous translation, just for the convenience of reading.
Advantages:
The old classification system accommodated a wide range.
It is just like the word "ball", which includes football, table tennis, basketball, badminton, rugby and so on. This feature allows the community to accommodate a wide range of people.
For example, the definition of encounter type allows people with IF to settle in the community.
Disadvantages:
The definition of the old taxonomy is too vague.
This disadvantage is also brought by the advantages. The definition is so vague that people often say different things about "tulpa". Still taking the ball as an example, Mr. A and Ms. B are discussing a football match. Ms. B does not know football. She is good at table tennis. She believes that since table tennis is also a ball, it is okay to talk to Mr. A by the standard of table tennis.
If Ms B does this, then there will be a very big misunderstanding between the two. Although football and table tennis are both balls, the technical skills to master them are different.
Unequal information makes this situation exist in both Japanese and Chinese communities. This is precisely the ambiguity of definitions that causes everyone to misunderstand.
To give an example of a Chinese community, some people think of the illusion caused by their illness as tulpa. Because it is suddenly appearing, this is fully consistent with the definition of the type of encounter.
The above are the advantages and disadvantages of the old taxonomy. Simply put, it is not rigorous in definition.
So what we need to do now is to rigorously divide the actual situation while preserving the advantages, and then promote the content. It takes everyone's effort to complete this step because it is about the entire community. This is not something that can be done by one person.
This is a step that must be taken. Because of this, it needs to absorb the voices of all of you in order to do better.
You're talking about a very common situation. It's common for people to have the same experience as you. These people don't even know about tulpa.
That's the problem, if these people know the concept. Usually they will put their own situation into it, and the information of the community will serve as the source of their understanding of the thing.
If the data don't have a negative impact, that's fine. The point is that if community data can lead people astray, that's not good. This is the problem we face.
So we need to make sure that this data doesn't create a bad situation.
Earlier, a member of the English community tried to get to know the Japanese community by comparing the vocabularies of the two communities to make it easier for him to read. There are some similarities. You can find it here.Sorry, this page doesn't seem to work. But I have a backup of the content, which I'll show below if you're interested.
The Psychonaut seems to be the term for chaos magic? I have a friend who loves studying chaos magic, but I don't know much about it myself.
If you're interested, maybe we can talk more deeply.
と言いますと？
『チラシの裏』という、まあ意味は形骸化してるかもだけど、そこで議論の一部を担うのも変に思えるけど……どうなんでしょう？
うーん…それだと次第にルールがなしくずしになあなあになってしまわないかを少し懸念しています。
リンクを載せなくとも話自体はできるわけですし、ここは見ようと思えばだれでも見られるわけですしね
むぅ……まずは議論のやり方の話をしない？
皆早いなぁと思いつつも、個人的にはこの「タルパまとめwiki 管理メンバースレ」と「タルパまとめwiki運営Twitterアカウント」だけはチラシの裏に書き込んでもいいという方針でいるのですが、大丈夫ですか？
流石に悪意を持って皆さん個人のアカウントやブログを載せるのは禁止としますが……
この鯖を立てたことを告知しに行こうかと思ったら、先にされてた……
こんばんは
大丈夫ですよ暇ですし
夜分遅くに呼び出してすいません、あまのさん……。
>> 11
あまのさんこんばんはー✨
ツリーテスト
よし
というのも…。そういう真面目な報告等は真剣に取り合いたいところだけど、匿名ユーザー全ての意見を取り入れるのは事実上不可能だと思っている。
なら、まだ連絡先が明確なユーザーのみからの意見なら…というところがあるけど。どうだろうなぁ。難しいし、それこそ「夢見んな」って言われたら……(´･_･`)💦
おはようございます
書き込めてますかね
それに関してはそうだね…。改善点等が発生したら僕らで練って公開。からのwiki民に意見募る形で。
ただ、できれば「連絡・相談・報告」は「メールフォーム」か「Twitter」を通じて行って欲しいところがある。
了解ですー。。
改善点等が浮かんだら、乾麺が草案練って、どこかしかで公開してwiki民に意見募るのが妥当……な気はしてるけど、どうなんでしょ？
んー。そこら辺があやふやな状態なんだよな。あまのさんも今離席状態らしいし。
とりあえず、今回は問題点を洗い出すことからスタートしたい。
とはいえ、今日終わらせるつもりはなく、1時間後には一時解散する流れにしていきたいね。
僕らは管理メンバーであるとはいえ人間なので、そこら辺のことは理解して欲しい。
とりあえず議論の方針からスタートだねぇ。
とりあえず議論するのはいいけど、wiki民も言いたいことはいっぱいあると思う。。
むー、どんな感じにする？
みんにゃさんだ…。
とりあえず真面目に話し合おう…。
公開で喋るのは苦手というか、文がまとまらないので恥ずかしいところがあるので草案を出してからやりたい気持ちはあった…。
作成お疲れさまです💞💞
発言テスト
このスレは「管理メンバーが見えないところで話し合われるのはちょっと…」という方の為に作成されました
その為、皆様にも見えるような形で発言しますが、経営方針を含め、全てを見直す必要があるので、どうしても短文でやり取りを行う傾向が発生するかと思います
ご了承ください
遅くなりましたが他にご意見ないようなので、きゃらくたぁ製作所さんの意見で行ってみます！
もし他に良いものが挙がってきたら、また変更してもいいかと思います。
よろしくお願いいたします。
すみません。
その文はこういった意味でした。
I think you're thinking about the social impact of the future tulpa community.
しかしあなたの解答に影響はありません。私は質問の解答を得ました。
ありがとうございます。
私個人は将来のための議論の下地としてこの４つのカテゴリーを提唱する事に賛成します。
この組分けは現状を反映した包括的なものであるがゆえに将来的には役割を終えるかもしれません。
しかし日本の十倍以上の人口を持つ中国で、そしてロシアや、書籍の時代を素通りしてインターネットネイティブ環境に突入しているインドでは大きな発展性があると思います。
その点を強く評価します。何事も動き出さなければ始まらないのですから。
Thank you for your feedback.
Thanks for your translation, the general meaning is correct, but some details may still need to be embellished for the sake of rigor.
Yes, the classification is based on functionality, not on the nature of things. Because the latter requires a large number of objective experiments to give more scientific results, which we can not do at present. So I think this is the first stage of classification, it's for the future.
It is more for the future contact with this kind of culture novice, as well as the public do not understand this kind of culture.
Currently this definition is fairly broad, such as IF can also be incorporated into this classification. The aim is not to narrow the definition so that members of the previous community feel excluded. Second, it actually protects the original concept of tulpa, so that we can explore and study the essence of tulpa without interference from similar concepts.
In short, the new taxonomy is only used by current community members to correct some of the less rigorous data. I'm sure you've seen the controversy over the old classification system.
So the new taxonomy may not make much sense to most members. Because it's more for beginners and the future.
Eternal Beauty is a new concept to me. I've never heard of it. I need to look it up.
ところでzeldashyu2さんはタルパを持たない人々への社会的な影響力について考えておられると思うんですが、
I could not understand the following content of this sentence very well. Forgive me for confirming their meaning to you.
わかりやすい分類だと思う。状況で分けられるから「自分はどれも違う」みたいなことが起こりにくいと思うし、いま別の名称とか分類を使っている人でも、それはそれで置いておいて、並行してこの分類を使ってみることが出来る。
うちのタルパは1で、IFは（タルパとして扱ってないけど当て嵌めるとしたら）2かな。
全文を読んでないので見当外れのこといってたらごめん
カテゴリー１ タルパの創造法について理解し、自己の意思によって創造し、有している。
カテゴリー２ タルパの創造法を知らない状態で自己の意思によって創造し、有している。
カテゴリー３ タルパの創造法について知っているが自己の意思によって創造したものでなく、有している。
カテゴリー４ タルパの創造法について知らない状態で自己の意思によって創造してものでもないが有している。
おおむねこういう認識で在ってますでしょうか。日本側の方、私の認識が誤っていたらご訂正いただきたいです。
間違っていたらともかく私の認識が正しいなら、この組分けは機能的だと感じます。
この組分けがどのように運用されるかはさておいて、少なくともIF、タルパ、EB
それぞれの性質の違いに触れずに大半を定義する事が可能だという点においてです。
（EBはあまり話題に登らなくなりましたがゆうきゆう氏が２００４年に著作で提唱したEternal Beautyはタルパの心理学的な在り方と捉えて良いと思います）
ところでzeldashyu2さんはタルパを持たない人々への社会的な影響力について考えておられると思うんですが、
こうしたコミュニティ内部での再定義の後、どの様に運用して社会的イメージを向上させていくつもりでしょうか？
またそのために団結することが一人ひとりのタルパーにどのようなメリットがあると考えていますか？
もし見解も目的も異なるタルパーを糾合するなら説得材料が必要になると思います。
The four categories are summarized as follows:
Category 1: know - create - have
Category 2: don't know - create - have
Category 3: know - don't create - have
Category 4: don't know -- don't create -- have
分类1：知道——创造——有
分类2：不知——创造——有
分类3：知道——不创造——有
分类4：不知——不创造——有
The effect of translation is not very ideal, there are many places because of translation reasons appear not rigorous. Therefore, Chinese text:
分类1。在了解到tulpa相关文献后，对内容进行实践的人士，他们所创造出了的最终产物。这里的tulpa文献主要指tulpa社区原始的指南。比如英语社区tulpa.info上所陈列的，日本社区旧wiki的数篇教程，以及俄罗斯社区他们网站展示的。这是分类1。
分类2。对tulpa文献并不知情，却误打误撞创造出了和tulpa类似的“存在”。分类2和分类1的主要区别在于，当事人并不知道tulpa文化，他们掌握的可能仅是类似的信息，极端情况下他们什么都不知道，但采取的方法就tulpa社区所做的那样。
分类3。在获知了tulpa文献后，没有进行创造或终止了创造，却依然产生出来的“存在”。和分类1的区别在于当事人的自主性上，创造终止到产生这种“存在”的区间至少要有3天以上。这种情况可以认为是当事人在心中无意完成的，尽管他不知道或表面否认。
分类4。并不知道tulpa文献或相关信息，亦没有进行创造，仍然产生出来的“存在”。可以认为是分类2的“反面”。需要注意的是，分类3和分类4包含了DID等特殊情况。例如当事人可能拥有不同程度的心理创伤，或抑郁症等情况。由于个人的情况只有自己最清楚，因此如果自身情况符合分类3和分类4，当事人需要更多的考虑自身的健康情况，切勿盲目代入这两个分类。
The above classification may still be not rigorous or even omissions, please be sure to put forward their own valuable Suggestions. If you have better ideas, list them separately. Had better control is less than 5, such convenient novice memory, also convenient people is daily use.
てすてす
Below I will give a relatively rigorous classification based on the information collected in the past six months and my personal experience as a Chinese community administrator for 2 years. I will not give nouns directly, just replace them with numbers:
Category 1. After understanding the relevant tulpa literature, the practice of content, they created the final product. The tulpa literature here mainly refers to the original guide to the tulpa community. For example, the English community, the Russian community, and the guides displayed on the main websites of the Japanese community.
Category 2. They don't know the information of the tulpa community, but they created a similar existence. The main difference between category 2 and category 1 is that they don't know the tulpa culture, they may only have similar information, in extreme cases they don't know anything, but take the approach that the tulpa community does.
Category 3. After they contacted the relevant materials, they did not try or interrupted the attempt, but still produced results. The difference from categorization 1 is that, on the autonomy of the parties, the interval between the termination of creation and the generation of such "existence" must be at least three days. This situation can be considered as the party has no intention to complete in the heart.
Category 4. They do not know the tulpa literature or relevant information, nor take the initiative to try similar practices, but still produce the "existence". Can be considered the "opposite" of category 2.It should be noted that category 3 and category 4 contain DID and other special cases. For example, the person may have different degrees of psychological trauma, or depression, etc. Since only the individual knows his/her own situation best, if his/her own situation conforms to classification 3 and 4, the party concerned needs to think more about his/her own health, and should not blindly consider himself/herself as one of these two categories.
てすてす
The following is a summary of the advantages and disadvantages of the old taxonomy:
Note, for the convenience of writing, I use encounter type as an 邂逅型 instead. This may not be a rigorous translation, just for the convenience of reading.
Advantages:
The old classification system accommodated a wide range.
It is just like the word "ball", which includes football, table tennis, basketball, badminton, rugby and so on. This feature allows the community to accommodate a wide range of people.
For example, the definition of encounter type allows people with IF to settle in the community.
Disadvantages:
The definition of the old taxonomy is too vague.
This disadvantage is also brought by the advantages. The definition is so vague that people often say different things about "tulpa". Still taking the ball as an example, Mr. A and Ms. B are discussing a football match. Ms. B does not know football. She is good at table tennis. She believes that since table tennis is also a ball, it is okay to talk to Mr. A by the standard of table tennis.
If Ms B does this, then there will be a very big misunderstanding between the two. Although football and table tennis are both balls, the technical skills to master them are different.
Unequal information makes this situation exist in both Japanese and Chinese communities. This is precisely the ambiguity of definitions that causes everyone to misunderstand.
To give an example of a Chinese community, some people think of the illusion caused by their illness as tulpa. Because it is suddenly appearing, this is fully consistent with the definition of the type of encounter.
The above are the advantages and disadvantages of the old taxonomy. Simply put, it is not rigorous in definition.
So what we need to do now is to rigorously divide the actual situation while preserving the advantages, and then promote the content. It takes everyone's effort to complete this step because it is about the entire community. This is not something that can be done by one person.
This is a step that must be taken. Because of this, it needs to absorb the voices of all of you in order to do better.
ありがとうございます。
日本語で書いても読んでもらえることは、とても助かります。よろしくお願いします
>> 70 おおっと大変失礼しました…！前の書き込みはご存知でしょうのでお忘れくださいｗ
双方でネイティブでない英語を使うと、コミュニケーションエラーが発生しやすい可能性があるので日本語でOKです、というお申し出を頂いておりましたので、日本語を推奨していますが、英語が問題なく理解できる方なら全く問題ないと思います。
私も思うところはありますが、ルールはルールなので…削除しました。
タルパWikiへの誘導や、個人に対する晒行為や直接的な言及を伴わない内容は残しているので、事実への言及自体は問題ありません。
よって問題ないと思われる範囲で書き直しますね。
タルパWikiのほうで動きがあり、旧管理人氏が名乗り出た上で、新管理人氏に引き継ぎが行われたとのことです。
メンバー募集を行っているようなので、参加可能な方はご協力頂けるようzawa側からもお願いです。
ナナこんにちは
You're talking about a very common situation. It's common for people to have the same experience as you. These people don't even know about tulpa.
That's the problem, if these people know the concept. Usually they will put their own situation into it, and the information of the community will serve as the source of their understanding of the thing.
If the data don't have a negative impact, that's fine. The point is that if community data can lead people astray, that's not good. This is the problem we face.
So we need to make sure that this data doesn't create a bad situation.
Good evening!
Although it may be morning when you receive this message.Maybe we can work together to change that, if we want to.
Earlier, a member of the English community tried to get to know the Japanese community by comparing the vocabularies of the two communities to make it easier for him to read. There are some similarities.
You can find it here.Sorry, this page doesn't seem to work. But I have a backup of the content, which I'll show below if you're interested.The Psychonaut seems to be the term for chaos magic? I have a friend who loves studying chaos magic, but I don't know much about it myself.
If you're interested, maybe we can talk more deeply.